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That’s super negative, but I’ve been enjoying tinkering with this stuff in general! Shoutout to @paulrobertlloyd , I’ve been playing with #indiekit for a few days and it’s been a blast.

@jbrr i wonder if this will lead to a valuing of developers by the general public. everyone is so use to free (as in beer) not realizing it costs a lot to make what you are asking for.

There's a huge push for "take online class and u can dev too" that makes it easy to flood the market with people lacking the skills needed beyond writing code. Soft skills, user centered design, technical writing. To get user friendly, devs need to be more than code monkeys. But that also means it will cost more.

@jecxjo yeah, good point, maybe. What would be *great* is if non engineers got involved in open source. Like product folk getting involved in the roadmap, or qa testers testing for humans instead of engineers. Or design people making things look less bootstrap-y (side note, I’m super impressed with the design chops of a lot of the #indieweb folks). Non-engineers working on OSS would make a huge difference, but there’s usually not a reasonable way to do that for them without learning git, &c

@jbrr i hear ya. sadly most indie devs dont realize the work and education required to do all the rest of the work. they make a project they want and hope others like it too.

the saddest part is this problem isn't lost on commercial work either. I'm running into UX issues where user analysis isn't really being done. I brought up Human Centered Design concepts and practices and everyone was amazed. Not a good thing when my phase of the project is long after UX design is complete.