A lot of my friends on Twitter seem to have a deep hatred of Mastodon, and I'm trying to figure out why. I can certainly understand just not wanting to use Mastodon, Lord knows, I'm here very rarely myself, but I don't understand the vitriol against it.

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@twylo a lot of people have issues with instances that rule with an iron fist

@xarph I can certainly understand that, but there are lots of instances, or you can even run your own (god forbid, I've done this and I hated it, what a mess the software stack is) if you really wanted to. I think for some of them the problem is discoverability, which is definitely not great here.

@twylo there aren't really any Main Characters here so everyone feels weird and lost if they didn't already follow a bunch of people on the instance.

@twylo @Xarph I think that has always been the issue. Sense things are split into instances, it’s hard to find and discover things.

@LoranSkunky @twylo i can count on one hand the number of toots I've seen be "viral"

@LoranSkunky @twylo like, the reason all the right wing instances shrivel up and die no matter how resourced they are is that there are no libs to shit on. The rest of mastodon is the same way - no Main Characters to shit on - except good instances have an identity and don't need bloodshed to keep up "engagement."

Some people don't want to admit they're here for spectacle.

@twylo @xarph That really depends? I mean, the federation model is sufficiently close to the old BBS networking model that discoverability is best described as slow, rather than impossible.

My presence on Hackers.Town has been refreshingly pleasant, and lots of people have found me here, despite me not making significant use of the home timeline. I just write about my projects using appropriate hashtags, and people kind of filter in over time.

@twylo I think they want the benefits of hellsite with none of the problems: endless audiences and seamless integration with their professional lives without harassment, fascists, sealions. But I don't see how it's possible. You either have a centralized big tent or a decentralized federation of littler, cozier tents. Community moderation and norms don't scale to planet-wide social media.

Since "free & infinitely scalable" has been the baseline for so long, people don't see it as having a cost.

@ehashman @twylo One of the pushbacks I saw (the last big jump, or maybe the one before) was people complaining it's too easy to make an alt account, like you could go out and make some other georgieboy and impersonate me and there's nothing to stop you. But of course, that's not unique to Mastodon.

Like, it _is_ a concern, but it's still not very worth bothering being concerned about, partially because of the difficulty of discovering you mentioned.

@georgieboy @twylo this is a legitimate complaint but also it's already a massive problem on Twitter? Impersonation accounts often stay up for months without getting shut down and moderation policies are extremely inconsistent

@ehashman @twylo yup! and well moderated instances will cut out the ones that refuse to moderate impersonators, so I think if folks are sticking to those, it's mostly mitigated and "should" be better than hellsite.

There's the issue of admins handing over to less-than-trustworthy folks, buuut turns out we live in a society etc etc.

@twylo I've run into disdain for the idea of Yet Another Social Network a bunch. Setting up/migrating a new (personal) network on one's always a pain, especially if you're well established somewhere else.

Also after the last few years I could also understand people reflexively assuming anything that looks like a spinoff site is going to be another radioactive "free speech platform..."

@pstewart @twylo I think that's probably it.

An activist group I was in was hitting limits on a free account for Slack, so we switched to a self-hosted Mattermost instance. It solved all our technical problems, but people never stopped complaining about trivial interface differences.

I've run into resistance trying to get people to use Matrix instead of Discord, or XMPP instead of anything. And then there's the nightmare of Google Drive.

@twylo wow i'd never heard of that and now *i'm* curious too... it sounds like being angry at the printing press or the concept of rocks

maybe it's because i don't think of the fediverse as a "place": twitter is like midgar, and the fediverse is like the rest of the universe, it just exists as-is and you make your own way?

@robey @twylo Weird! I would also like to understand. I wonder if it's some nazi misinfo or something?

@robey @twylo Ok I found some vitriol, example:

...these complaints aren't wrong? I just value the federation more than the reliability. (And I don't use the Mastodon DM feature, because why on earth would I trust a public platform with private info)

@zerotrickpony @twylo after reading that thread i think there's a certain type of furry who this site just ... isn't *for*... and that's ok

it's not about clout or followers or having a central registry, but some of us like that

@twylo Maybe because they're invested in the platform? Maybe it's some kind of Stockholm syndrome?

@twylo mostly I wish that identity wasn't so tightly coupled to instances.

@twylo I think a lot of it is just a misunderstanding of the idea of instances. I think you can see that with thr recent upflow in New users on in combination of the "official" Mastodon app on the Playstore.

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