Fiddling with Plan9 on a VM...

This really feels like a OS of the future. I love how none of the Acme commands have names that correspond to what eventually became common terms like Copy, Paste, etc. Instead it's Snarf, Zerox, etc.

Question: is there some sort of "dock" or "panel" for Plan9?

@lains in acme, every word is a command if you click3 on it, so you make your panel for each project, with keywords that do the things you need. Have you watched this?

@neauoire Oh, so actions follow windows.... Interesting.

@neauoire @lains Copy, Paste, etc. had been around for over 20 years by the time Acme was made (1992-1994), and had been widely popular and well-known with the public for over 10, with the Apple Macintosh.

It didn't invent any of those things, and I have no idea why it gave them weird names (just to be quirky?)

Or maybe because they thought people might confuse 'copy to clipboard' with 'copy file'

@neauoire @lains yeah, but why use it instead of the long-established cut, copy, paste wording? Acme isn't some ancient history Ur-editor with an alternative evolutionary path, it was made in the 90s, mainstream GUIs had been around for 10 years at that point. And Acme is a copy of Oberon's editor, which calls copying text... copying.

@cancel @neauoire

I guess they wanted to differentiate copying files with copying text

@lains @cancel @neauoire because it was already snarf in plan9 :P

I mean, why change the vocabulary. would copy be something different than snarf?

@royniang @lains @neauoire Yeah. Same thing. Macintosh was out 8 years before the first release of Plan 9. Lisa 10 years. And Xerox PARC had cut/copy/paste another 10 years earlier than that.

@cancel @lains @neauoire I was talking about snarf in acme, not snarf in plan9 itself

@royniang @lains @neauoire Same thing applies to both Acme and Plan 9. Acme came out in the 90s.

@cancel @lains @neauoire sure, I’m just saying that since plan9 chose snarf, why would they use copy in acme? Not that it really matters anyway :)

@royniang @lains @neauoire Right, but if you want to say it's because Plan 9 called it that, then why did Plan 9 call it that? Same thing applies.


@cancel @royniang @lains @neauoire The earliest uses of 'snarf' known to me are the window system 'mux' and text editor 'jim', both made for a Blit terminal and Research Unix V8 (iirc). This is the early 80's.

@kvik @royniang @lains @neauoire I haven't used Blit before. Did it mean to copy the text selection, or to grab a whole file?

@cancel @royniang @lains @neauoire It meant text copy.

I'm way too young to have used a real Blit, but I've used 9front's games/blit emulator to connect to a public V8 UNIX that aap set up a while ago. Great fun :)

@kvik @royniang @lains @neauoire OK, well, now the Plan 9 Snarf thing makes a little more sense :) I'm guessing they didn't want to use Xerox's "copy" action name, because "copy" already meant to copy a file, and in the early 80s, there wasn't as much reason to follow existing GUI vocabulary. Just my guess, though.

@cancel @royniang @lains @neauoire I think that sounds about right. As you mentioned Xerox, notice that Plan 9 (and earlier) GUI programs of the Labs descent often have a 'zerox' action which is used to clone the current file view into a new window. :)

@kvik @royniang @lains @neauoire I wonder if that's a double-joke, because the Oberon button bar action thing labeled "Copy" will clone the window :P (It also calls copying text as copying, and copying files as copying.)

@cancel @royniang @lains @neauoire I think I remember someone mentioning it was initially just 'xerox', since that was a popular verb to use for the action at the time. They then had to change it because of trademark or something.

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