@sir Please don't use Discord for FOSS projects, either.

@jakob @sir what do y'all suggest that's approachable for people who got into the tech space circa 2013 onwards?

I highlight that because IRC is hard for me to get into (not me but I've heard). I see mattermost.com/ and gitter.im/ as alternatives but one is closed + requires github login

@jalcine @jakob @sir

I am having a great time with matrix! you can message in markdown, have a group call, optionally host your own server, and it uses double ratchet (signal's encryption).

If you wanna derp around and check it out, I suggest you download the app riot.im, and if you want I run a server at whomst.online :>

@the_gayest_doggo @sir @jakob @jalcine +1 for Matrix, it's great!
It's also very easy to bridge to irc (transparantly!!!), so all the irc nerds will be happy too :P
@f0x @the_gayest_doggo @sir @jakob @jalcine matrix is poorly designed, irc is poorly designed (nobody follows the core standard anymore and there are hundreds of nonstandard vendor extensions), i honestly dont know how to feel about xmpp other than the fact that historically there have been a lot of competing extensions for the same features and a bunch of mediocre xmpp clients
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@wowaname @f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @sir I can look past "poorly designed," especially since new versions of both specs are being developed

@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x except that isnt how it works in reality. the need for backwards compatibility will forever curse the protocols that get "upgraded" and then we're stuck with partial adoption and an even messier protocol than we started out with
@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x irc, matrix, and xmpp all have an equal downfall: they're all plaintext ergo not binary safe, and as a result it's that much more difficult to implement filesharing, voice, video, and other multimedia features. we end up with bolted-on functionality for all that, or serialising binary data into plaintext (base64 or character escape sequences for instance) and just causing it to be overall inelegant

@wowaname @f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @sir Have you looked at the IRCv3 spec? I don't think it has a bad approach to backwards compatibility. As for the issue of features like voice/video, my mentality is that a chat protocol shouldn't be a monolith in terms of capabilities. If you need those features, bring in another piece of software to supplement it, like Mumble

@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x whether the ircv3 spec is good or not doesnt account for the fact that irc has a stubborn culture surrounding it. two very big irc networks still lack nickname registration services and most "modern" irc additions because they're happy with their own thing and don't want anything to change. ircv3 is going to be poorly adopted; anyone who's been on irc for any good length of time knows this
@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x >my mentality is that a chat protocol shouldn't be a monolith in terms of capabilities.

i'm careful about this too and i dont know what would be the best balance for that. honestly i lean toward having one handle for that, but im happy with anything that works well and seamlessly in practice. im just thinking about stuff like phone numbers being used for both voice and text

>If you need those features, bring in another piece of software to supplement it, like Mumble

mumble's alright for group voice but for one-on-one it's kinda much. also there's no decent foss solution for video yet
@wowaname Jitsi works pretty good, for both voice and video. It's also integrated nicely in Riot, the most popular matrix client.

I think it's nice to have messages be just json, for files etc they can just link to the media repo (like matrix does)
@f0x is jitsi its own thing? i thought it was part of xmpp (using the jingle extension or w/e) but their site makes it look like something else
@wowaname yesh it's standalone, but integrates well with matrix for example.
@wowaname See jitsi meet, I was planing on deploying my own server, but I have nextcloud talk running now so I may settle on that @f0x Ji
@wowaname @jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x Speak outloud the name of KRISHNA and google "Science of Self Realization online" and click the first link, the vedabase dot com one. You can read the book for free online and it will give you transcendental knowledge of God and how to attain liberation so you can be free.

@wowaname @f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @sir I'm hopeful that new big networks will come onto the scene in response to the current big networks not adopting IRCv3, but you do raise a good point on adoption of newer versions of these chat specs

@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x @wowaname Speak outloud the name of KRISHNA and google "Science of Self Realization online" and click the first link, the vedabase dot com one. You can read the book for free online and it will give you transcendental knowledge of God and how to attain liberation so you can be free.
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