Honestly, does anyone else feel grossed out and depressed over the last few weeks?

It feels like it devolved into stanning/dogpiling rms personally, which reduces... the people who were sexually harassed or edged out of FOSS into NPCs and rhetorical talking points.

I don't want to judge or condemn anyone, and have complex personal feels. I just want being femme and a dev to suck less going forward.

@cidney I think part in this is everyone has their own negative interactions with him, including all the cis het collaborators.

Personally I've had little interactions with him, pushing a couple patches to emacs and some mails on emacs-devel@ and emacs-tangents@, and while I was not abused, it was so painfully obvious how harmful to FOSS and how annoying he was.

So everyone had a say and as usual the most "agreeable" folks got the tallest platform out of which they spoke the loudest...

@cadadr Definitely. By the time I was at MIT, rms had become a bit of a joke ("I invented emacs, will you sleep with me?"). I didn't directly interact with him, but know people he harassed.

I have complex feelings because by then there were lots of people who had... similar egos, but better game, and thought objections to hitting on undergrads half their age was "ageist".

Toxic cultures are hard to unpack.

@cidney That joke is soo telling 😢

These folk adapt to the day and co-opt what's "hip" to legitimise their exploitation..

Tangentially one idea that I keep returning to these days is student's participation in running universities. We have no say in anything. Surely if students and lower rank academics had the power to kick you out, you couldn't go hitting on students, at least as easily. We need a movement to demilitarise and democratise education, just like worker coops.

@cadadr @cidney that galaxy brain meme :ancomheart: :ancomheart:

Democratise the whole of society

@kawaiipunk @cidney Eventually...

Top down revolutions seem to not work. I have more trust in bottom up democratisation of our fundamental institutions, like worker / consumer coops.

This is kinda off topic considering the OP, and I wouldn't want to detract from it, but I'd be happy to join in if someone starts a separate thread on it, feel free to @ me. I don't have a lot of answers but I do have questions that I find interesting.

@cadadr @kawaiipunk @cidney I'd love to have a chat about this at some point; I was listening to a podcast recently that I thought was going to provide an interesting critique of the co-op model but as far as I can tell (I need to listen again, I was having a hard time following it) the critique was "it doesn't fix all the problems, and it doesn't do it instantly so top-down revolutions are better" which seemed to miss the point IMO. But I'd be curious to hear other views on it.

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