mouse ตัวเก่า (อายุเกิน 10 ปี) ชิ้นส่วนที่เป็นยางของ scroll wheel หลอมละลายจนคิดว่าซ่อมไปก็ไม่คุ้มแล้ว

@cwt hi bro, teach me basic thai plzz 😻

@K@fosstodon.org Ha it's pretty hard in my opinion. For the example, you have to memorize an amount of words to be able to do "word-break" in your mind.

@veer66@mstdn.io @K@fosstodon.org oh that wasn't what I think. I think when we learn English, we learn to read (and write, et. al.) using English (Roman) alphabets, therefore learning Thai shouldn't we start with Thai alphabets?

@veer66@mstdn.io @K@fosstodon.org well, unless we learn to speak and listen first, but that cannot be done using text mode communication.

@cwt @K It depends on what you want. Writing is quite new for humankind comparing to speaking.

Follow

@veer66 @cwt @K I usually recommend people learn to read from the start when learning Thai. I wish I had done that myself. That's because for Thai the writing is quote phonetic, in combination with most transcriptions of Thai being done using terrible systems. I had to think for a while before I realized what chankinkhaw was supposed to mean …

@bkhl @veer66 @cwt @K 100% agree. I learned how to read before I knew 50 words and before I came and it's such a godsend since the transliteration is inconsistent and garbage.

@bkhl @veer66 @cwt @K I think the only thing that might be easier to newbies would be learning Lao since it's waay simpler and most of the letters look similar so you're not caught up in a deluge of stupid rules like implied vowels and too many consonant and all the Sanskrit/Pali. Lao is like baby's first abugida. <3 It's like learning Spanish for the Roman alphabet instead of English with it's wild inconsistencies.

@toastal @veer66 @cwt @K I like the option to show things in "phonemic Thai" that they have on thai-language.com (has to be enabled in settings I think), so for example looking up ก็, in addition to various phonetic transcriptions, you can have it show ก้อ as a pronunciation guide.

@bkhl @veer66 @cwt @K Nothing's more fun than typing Isaan though. Since the OG Isaan writing system never had tone markers, and the Thai government abolished it, AND Isaan like Lao has 6 tones and Thai only encodes 5, Isaan doesn't really have a standard way of writing itself. Every girl I've chatted with have a different way of spelling everything and it's more likely to be phonetic with it's use of tone markers. Whereas in Thai, เขา is written with rising tone but spoken as a high tone, เค้า.

@toastal @veer66 @cwt @K check out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard for a related language with a really chequered history of writing. I especially like the era of using both Latin and Cyrillic letters.

@bkhl @veer66 @cwt @K That's just absurd. But at least China's done a good job convincing a lot of people that "Chinese" is a language to get people to conform to the identity.

@bkhl @veer66 @cwt @K I've been curious about visiting places like this to see what I could manage to understand... but the 🇨🇳 scares me

@toastal @veer66 @cwt @K don't think even a native Thai speaker would understand much. I understand they split about 1800 years ago. All else being equal that makes them about as closely related as Romanian and Spanish.

@toastal @bkhl @veer66 @cwt so you're saying I should memorize the script first, well the closest I know is the Myanmar Burmese which has the same pattern I guess? only different font style 😹

@K @toastal @bkhl @veer66 @cwt

IMO Thai alphabet looks more similar to Khmer alphabet than Mon/Burmese alphabet.

@K @veer66 @bkhl @veer66 @cwt Yeah, Burmese is notoriously difficult to learn. It's used somewhat in the North of Thailand and may share a common Bhramic root, but it's not very similar to Thai. It's closer to Khmer as mentioned, & even closer to Lao. Learning the script is just memorization and will help you pronounce words better as well as encoding is your head the proper way to say a word instead of remembering it wrong.

@veer66 @K @bkhl @veer66 @cwt Debating whether I should continue my rant in a blog about the many problems with the Thai Romanization systems hahaha

@toastal @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt seems RTGS is mostly aimed for people who know how to pronounce the words already, but can't read Thai script, for road signs and such. But it is odd that it doesn't mark aspiration for tɕʰ when it does for kʰ and pʰ.

For my flash cards I just use IPA (as above). At least that's reusable for communicating with linguistics people that don't know any Thai.

@bkhl @toastal @veer66 @K @cwt

I'm exhaustive every time, I read linguistic papers about Thai language. 🤣

@bkhl @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt but why is the target audience people that can already read Thai if Thai already has a writing system?

@bkhl @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt I believe learning this system is part of the reason Thai people pronounce English so poorly.

@toastal @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt Thai pupils don't learn RTGS, or any transcription system, as you will notice when you learn some Thai and start reading Latin script signage around here.

@bkhl

@toastal @K @veer66 @cwt

Some roads like Vibhavadi use IAST-like standard. Indian can pronounce it properly, but I don't recognize it.

@bkhl @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt it's transcribed backwards poorly. Thank you becomes แทงคิว​ not just because there's no th in Thai, but because that IS ท.​ Sticker as สติ๊กเกอร์​ includes ต​ not present in English and unaspirated ก​ despite English approximating to to g.

@toastal
@bkhl @veer66 @K @cwt

Many English teachers here don't speak English. There is nothing to do with transliteration.

@veer66 @bkhl @veer66 @K @cwt it has to...​How else do you borrow loan words? They could have went with สทิเคอรฺ​ to borrow English's aspirated consonants but didn't

@toastal
@veer66 @bkhl @K @cwt

A teacher can use IPA, if they can. Using Thai script doesn't help since the sound is different.

@toastal @veer66 @bkhl @K @cwt

In fact, they use IPA. The problem is some teachers cannot use IPA and cannot speak English.

@veer66 @veer66 @bkhl @K @cwt I think it's important for places too. So many foreigners think it's โค​แจง​ instead of เกาะช้าง.​ I'd argue it's more valuable that it's easy for foreigner to parse then anything else because it's about reaching a mutual understanding, without that, what's the purpose? 🤷‍♂️​

@toastal
How about using Pinyin-like system where English speakers cannot pronounce at all. Then it will be consistent. 🤣
@veer66 @bkhl @K @cwt

@toastal @veer66 @bkhl @K @cwt
I don't know why Chinese-Malaysian pronounce Bangkok correctly, American don't. 😥

@veer66 @toastal @veer66 @K @cwt because of the English "great vowel shift', the vowel characters have different sound values in English from all other western languages. However, I thought you can pronounce Bangkok however you like since it's not a Thai name anyway?

Show more
Show more

@toastal @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt the "t" in sticker isn't normally aspirated, and that's one case where I'd trust a Thai speaker more than an English speaker to tell the difference, given it's not a phonemic difference in English.

@bkhl @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt Yeah, I'm thinking on that one. Seems *most* of the time I'm not aspiriting the th, but the idea still stands. Pepsi on the chart gets compiled to เป๊ปซี่​ despite ป​ not existing in English (and it still after a year basically always sounds like b to my ear)

@toastal @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt ป exists in English, it's just not phonemic. But เพ็พซี would be reasonable regardless, since syllable-final พ s not aspirated, just like syllable-final p in English. เพ็ปซี and เพ็บซี would also work.

@bkhl @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt how do you reckon it exists exactly? I'm not doubting you... 😅

@bkhl

Pepsi is quite a strange case because a company can choose to spell whatever they like.

Maybe they did some sampling, and they found accurate one was bad for their business.

@toastal @K @veer66 @cwt

@veer66 @toastal @K @veer66 @cwt terrible, but then I'm Swedish. Doesn't make sense either based on the Swedish or English pronunciation of the brand.

Should be อีเคอะ (อี-เค-อะ) to match the Swedish pronunciation. Maybe they couldn't figure out how to write it without making it read as [ʔiː kʰɤ́ʔ]

Show more

@bkhl @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt เป๊ปซี่​ ไม่ใช่​ เพ็พซี

@toastal @bkhl @veer66 @K @cwt

The first group of people who taught English in Thai school was a group of French missionaries.

@toastal @veer66 @K @veer66 @cwt I mean people who know what road/place they are going to, but don't know Thai.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon @ SDF

"I appreciate SDF but it's a general-purpose server and the name doesn't make it obvious that it's about art." - Eugen Rochko