I've received someting that is a bit like hatemail, over something small but that rubbed this person in all the wrong ways..

So, a while back, I made a little webring, and one of the rules for a site to be elligible is that it be readable without javascript, it can have javascript, but the site can't rely on it entirely.

It's partly for accessibility, and partly for the aestethics

Well, this person is just not having it.

I read this, dismissing it as overreaction over nothing, but then it kind of kept me from sleeping.

I kept thinking about the email.

There's something that really pissed this person off, and it's got nothing to do with the webring.

I kindda get where they're coming from, if my studies, my work and my personal time goes into learning something, and then some other thing(like a silly webring) dismisses it all at once. I might be fucking pissed.

The webring doesn't explicitely say anything against javascript, but it's very easy to start reading into it.

Without pasting the full body of the email, I can tell you that words like retrofetishism and entitlement were flown around, to give you a taste.

I think it feels entitled because it goes against what one does for work. I guess making money from building html websites is just not a thing, so instantly, this turns lo-fi into something for people who've got extra time and money,

It's not the first time that I see this idea, that lofi, energy efficient stuff, diy things reeks of entitlement, retrofetishism, elitism.

This is what fucking keeps me from sleeping. It's a bit like, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Use wordpress, or electron, or nextjs, or some other dumb tech or if you don't, you're a fucking asshole.

Try to be inclusive and building accessible things targetting the very bottom of hardware bracket. No, you're being elitist for not using modern tech.


@neauoire This idea that DIY is “privileged” is, pardon me, unmitigated horse shit. Anyone who is poor can tell you: being poor is nothing but DIY AND RETROTECH. If anything, it’s annoying when the more well heeled get into vintage, as it restricts access to older tech.

And if you can’t pay for fancy CS classes or software, options like smolnet / retro become jolly enticing as a good way to learn about infotech and deploy on old computers.

@neauoire To use the (sigh) jargon fashionable these days: it is mainstream tech which is ableist, classist, imperialist, a privilege. By providing smol / simple options, you help enable an alternative infotech tradition which empowers the disadvantaged to take ownership of the means of computing by using less robust and older devices.

@Shufei @neauoire What bums me out is that, in theory, we could absolutely write custom frontends for simple, standardized REST APIs in whatever language is needed for whatever device or accessibility concerns. But instead all the endpoints are locked down, and instead of the web browser being a way to view documents over a standard protocol, it's become a virtual machine for literally making REST calls and displaying the results.

@invis @neauoire This is what happens. A totalitarian regime as a system must increasingly be devoted to securing its own hegemony. It becomes brittle in doing so, stultifying, necessitating hunted demimondes to produce those endpoints. That is what we are seeing in these alt-tech communities. I’d hazard that the propaganda against FLOSS/H or open standards and such will only increase and become more shrill from here out.

@Shufei @invis @neauoire You describe the dynamics of totalitarian systems well.

Looking for a way to do websites in 2020 without Javascript and other big ad tech slop was what accidentally led me to finding out there even is an alt-tech community and finding like minded people on fedi.

The smolnet-way could be appealing to a lot of people who may not know its out there, so we need these spaces where they’ll stumble on it.

@Shufei @neauoire I can't remember who, but I saw someone make a convincing argument that DIY sort of becomes a luxury as your pay rises. I.e., if your job pays $200/hr, it can seem frivolous to spend 2 hours making a thing that you could buy for $100

@Shufei @neauoire and at the other end, I guess if you're working the jobs just to feed yourself and pay rent, there's just no time for DIY.

@Shufei @neauoire
I get what you are saying but, on the flip side, learning how to do DIY takes time and energy.

Like, the reason I and everyone I know uses Wordpress it has a low learning curve and yuo can just jump in and start doing it -- rather than taking the time and mental effort of learning HTML or whatever else y'all are doing in retrotech.

This is a multisided thing -- yes, there is an accessibility aspect to being usable by low bracket technology.

@Shufei @neauoire But there is also an accessibility aspect to a website builder that someone with low mental function can use without straining themselves and their resources to learn.

@Shufei @neauoire
i feel like some acknowledgment of the necessary vs creative-self-enrichment drives between these two is worth recognizing as real, too

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