Is there an open source browser that doesn't harvest my organs for google, that isn't attached to a dying organization, that isn't just a clone of one of those likely to share its fate, and that isn't operated by creepy crypto dorks? like anything? Is it just dillo? Am I stuck with Dillo?

Like I get that there are dozens of Mozilla and Firefox forks, but they are basically just downstream builds so if Firefox goes they go.

@Capheind If Firefox disappears then it's unlikely that the downstream projects would have the resources to maintain all the complicated standards.

What remains of the open web could be in trouble sooner than most people think.

@deepthings @bob @Capheind I don't think so in the short term. Google bunged them some more cash, but the market share of Firefox has been in decline for a decade and there were significant Mozilla layoffs a year or so ago.

@Capheind wait a moment. You're saying that since Firefox will disappear at some point in the future because it doesn't have enough user share, you want to stop using it right now? Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy.

I think Gnome Web is a good choice, if you're on Linux

@steko @Capheind I'm afraid that firefox (the orga) is on a self-destructing spree *even* if they keep having enough user share that would allow them to survive.

I still use firefox and prefer it to the alternatives, however.

@Capheind you’ve got me wondering now too.

Everything seems a variation of Chromium or Firefox. But I suppose, so long as the base (WebKit, Blink, whatever) is open source, someone can always pickup from where a previous project left off?

@robert And many of the classic Free software browser projects have kinda stagnated, or their goals specifically exclude popular (but problematic or outright screwed) web tech.

@Capheind idk, personally I use qutebrowser but I am not familiar with what it is based off of. Still, nothing wrong with chromium or firefox based browsers imo! But mood lol

@donkeyblam Nothing wrong with them per-se, but with the Mozilla Foundation having stability issues Firefox may go the way of the Dodo, and without their code base doing the heavy lifting I don't know if Icecat, Librewolf, etc will still be around. Chromium is a little different. But again very few "forks" are actual forks and so they are somewhat beholden to google.

@donkeyblam Also I'm going to try qutebrowser. I keep telling myself I'm going to learn Vi keybindings.

@Capheind Yeah, I am starting to learn them as well and it seems quite nice. I changed several shortcuts on my computer the other day to be either like vi/vim or be based off of that mindset. I think it would have good synergy with a split keyboard but haven't tried it yet. Qutebrowser for me has had a tiny bit of a learning curve but is rapidly getting very great to use.

@Capheind @donkeyblam I too have qutebrowser. While there definitely are some friction points, only some of which are caused by qutebrowser, it's a nice hackable tool.

I wonder if we could handle Firefox as a community by abandoning all the irrelevant bs Mozilla does plus by removing all the useless components like the implementations of bs standards like Bluetooth, USB, etc.

@Capheind Yeah, it sucks because firefox (& firefox based) was my favorite browser. Hopefully people step up to make the future of it a bit better and less google lol, I still sometimes use firefox. I wonder if any other projects not-chromium based have any potential in the mid to near future for mass market. Like, the browser I generally use is good but def not something for people who don't like vim styled controls lol

@Capheind Wikipedia said the last stable release was in 2021, and there are some commits going into the git repository. But I don't know if that's active development or just maintenance.

@Capheind Possibly Vivaldi? It uses the Chrome engine but it's made by ex-Opera people (I used to work there so I know a bunch of them).

I think they use the Google search engine by default (that's how they make money I think, at least partly), but it should be easy to change. They probably also use Google's sync service by default, I don't think they run they own... but again you can just not use it 😄

They don't use Google search by default and don't use Google services

@Capheind I use almost only derivatives of organ-harvesting or moribund behemoth browsers, but occasionally I've used:

- (formerly QupZilla)
- (but apparently it's based on Electron now, which is a kind of perfect bizarre full-circle move)
- GNOME Web (formerly Epiphany and I haven't used it since those days ... apparently 9 years ago!)

@clacke @Capheind
Google Chrome, Safari, Opera, Vivaldi, and Microsoft Edge all came from KHTML by KDE. Konqueror still works, but is mostly neglected and way behind. I kinda miss when my web browser was also my file browser with different panes.
I keep falcon and dillo around along with lynx - the latter mostly to work around some paywalls.

@clacke @Capheind

Epiphany/GNOME Web would also be my recommendation. It's the default browser of Elementary OS.

@Capheind I'm building "Rhapsode". And there's NetSurf. Or the commandline browsers like Lynx. That's about it...

Also you didn't mention the Safari forks, those are popular on GNOME-based systems!

@Capheind No. There are AFAIR only three browser engines: Mozilla, Apple, Google. If you are #privacy-aware and want to support #FOSS/independence/open standards, your choice is #Firefox or one of its forks.

@Capheind I have been using badwolf, but it is tied to WebKit (GTK version.)

@Capheind Falkon is incredibly fast, but can be frustrating with prolonged use, eg its limited adblocking. No webrtc support either. It's also occasionally necessary to persuade some sites to deliver with non-default user agent strings.

@Capheind epiphany / Gnome WEB? don't think that's from FF or Chromium?

@Capheind Web standards are made complicated and fast-evolving for a reason: Kill competition. So yes, the browser scene is completely f****d up.

@Capheind I managed to get rid of the constantly flashing ads through configurations in Firefox. Most pages work without them, but not all.

@Capheind also I had a far more questionable idea too...

Microsoft did release edge for Linux...

Though the solution I went with for this problem was to donate money to Mozilla and hope they don't implode

@Capheind Monopolies suck.

Apparently the biggest browsers are chrome, safari, everyone else.

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